John Nordstrom is managing partner and senior mechanical engineer for Emanuelson-Podas Consulting Engineers in Edina, Minnesota, a company that provides engineering, commissioning and energy modeling services to clients. We recently spoke with him about how important mechanical, electrical and plumbing systems are for commercial buildings today.
Do these often-hidden amenities make office and other commercial buildings more attractive to tenants who want to keep their workers comfortable and productive? Are owners seeking out mechanical systems that help reduce their power, water and other bills?
Here is some of what Nordstrom had to say.
Your company’s website states that Emanuelson-Podas works closely with architects and developers to help deliver the best mechanical systems for a building. Can you talk a bit about what that means?
John Nordstrom: It’s important to bring engineers in on a building project early. If you don’t, we might get pigeonholed into a system that we maybe shouldn’t’ have done. When we start working with the building team, we walk through what the goals are. The EMT systems are a significant portion of a building’s costs, about 30% or more. It can’t just be an afterthought. That’s when you run into trouble with these key building systems. We work together to get the right systems for building owners.
John Nordstrom (Photo courtesy of Emanuelson-Podas Consulting Engineers.)
There are certain buildings that benefit from the most modern of electrical plumbing or mechanical systems, right? But there are others where those newer systems might not be a fit?
Nordstrom: Modern systems are awesome. But some jobs require work on older historical buildings. With those properties, you have to work with the strengths that you have. It’s important for engineers to be brought into the project early so that we can fully understand the constraints we might be working with. You can’t always do what you want to do with the building you get.
Can you provide a hypothetical of how you work closely with developers and architects to make sure buildings get the proper electrical, plumbing and heating and cooling systems?
Nordstrom: There is a trend today to repurpose buildings, especially office properties. Owners might want to turn an older office building into housing or a medical use. There can be challenges with getting the right systems into conversions like that. The structure might not be strong enough to hold rooftop equipment. The electrical or plumbing services might not be big enough to support several residences.
The column spacing and depth matter, too. People want to live in a place where they have windows and plenty of daylight. It’s not as appealing if the bedrooms are buried within the building. You might have wasted space in the middle of a building. How do you work with that?
We must answer these questions right away with architects and ownership to make these conversions successful.
Do owners understand the challenges that can come with these conversions, especially when it comes to engineering issues?
Nordstrom: It depends on the owner. If it’s a first project, the owners might have a dream. But reality isn’t always fun. Sometimes I have to be the bad engineer. I have to tell owners the reality of what they signed up for when they took on a project.
The other thing is that sometimes people buy a 25-year-old building and don’t expect to have to put money into its mechanical systems. How many people drive around a 20-year-old car? Very few, right? But they expect these older building systems to keep working without having to invest in them. I understand: It’s something they need, but it’s not a fun purchase. I’m often the one who tells them they need to invest in an upgrade.
Commercial buildings with more efficient and effective heating and cooling systems, upgraded electrical systems and efficient plumbing systems must be an easier sell for owners hoping to attract tenants, right?
Nordstrom: Class-A buildings with great amenity spaces are the ones still leasing up today. Everyone wants to live or work in a new, modern space. Spaces that are tired are not leasing up, unless they have a great location. If you spend money on amenities and to modernize your buildings to make them look aesthetically pleasing, you have a better chance of leasing those spaces.
I encourage people to update their building systems, too, when they can. You still need good, fresh air in your spaces. You won’t effective temperature controls. The lighting system needs to provide a healthy amount of light to a space. Tenants don’t necessarily see these systems. They work in the background. But they also make a building a more pleasant space, and that matters.
Are building owners often hesitant to invest in upgrading their properties’ electrical, plumbing and other systems?
Nordstrom: I always encourage building owners if they don’t have a lot of money to upgrade their systems to at least hire an engineering firm to do retro-commissioning. That’s where engineers evaluate a building’s systems and recommend steps for owners to take to improve its efficiency and lower its energy usage.
When we do retro-commissioning, we look at the whole building. Then we put together a list of steps that the owners can take to realize the biggest potential efficiency increases. It might be something easy. You might have old boilers. Changing them can make a big difference in your property’s efficiency. You might upgrade lighting and controls. There are many things you can do to make your building more efficient.
It’s about making sure a building is functioning the way it was intended to when it was built. It’s about making sure the building receives the proper amount of outdoor air, that it is cooling and heating correctly. Sometimes systems are not running as efficiently as possible. Outside air dampers might be too far open. Systems might be stuck on and running when they don’t need to be. It can be so many things.
Are building owners aware of how important it is to invest in their buildings’ mechanical systems?
Nordstrom: They are aware. But dollars get pulled to other things. Owners might not think about their building systems as often as they should. That’s the hard part. You must prioritize it. But as long as it works, owners tend to forget about it.
I know that 2024 was a challenging year for most commercial real estate companies. What about 2025? Do you think your company will be busy in 2025 with commercial engineering projects?
Nordstrom: It will be interesting to see. Affordable housing is still a need. We should see plenty of those projects coming online next year. We have been doing a lot more work on student housing through developers here and at campuses across the country. That market has been solid. Developers are creating what feel like market-rate apartments but designed for student living. Colleges don’t want to build their own student housing. They have property, so they work with developers to develop it. A lot of that should be happening next year.
